List System FAQ
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As of Jan 1999 our mailing lists became a membership benefit, available only to contributors.This FAQ answers questions about why this was necessary, how it works, etc. If you have any questions not addressed send them to us at snow@csac.org
What lists does this apply to?
Why the transition to a premium service?
Where does the money go?
Shouldn't avalanche bulletins be distributed freely?
Can I still subscribe and unsubscribe myself, and in that
way change my address as well?
What if I just subscribed?
I contributed but I am still getting unsubscribed, what
is wrong?
What other benefits do I get for contributing?
What lists does this apply to?
All CSAC avalanche advisory lists are now operated in the same way. Our csac-updates list and lists specifically for members (csac-members, csac-store-benefits to announce special member deals, etc) are not managed as specified here.
Why the transition to a contributor benefit?
There are a few reasons why the transition to a contributor benefit became necessary. They come down to the amount and nature of the work which was involved, the need to refocus the CSAC project in the most productive direction given a shortage of resources.
One person manages the entire website and all mailing list systems. This same person must take care of all routine office work as well. This person is not paid. The number of bounced e-mail notices was getting to be unreasonable, and many of these came back from messages which had been forwarded and/or filtered in various ways. Too much time was being spent deciphering headers, time which could be better spent on the web pages. This problem has returned to a more manageable level after the transition to a contributor benefit.
The list maintenance job was also made unpleasant by the many requests from people to fix some minor quirk immediately, unsubscribe them, or change their address. Most of these people had never contributed anything to the project. (Over 80% of the subscribers had not.) Since the transition we have been able to provide better, and friendlier, service to those who contribute. (Why do those who will not contribute feel such a sense of entitlement? These people are inevitably higher-maintenance than those who do contribute!)
As the web changes the CSAC must examine its role and how it will fit in with, and make the best use of, the emerging and rapidly changing technologies involved. The workload, along with the visibility and popularity of the resources provided, has grown tremendously. The financial, human, and computer resources available to the CSAC to carry out its work have not increased at the same pace.
Finally, the CSAC was conceived as a community resource. As the internet grows this is harder to maintain. Some aspects of the CSAC will inevitably go beyond the ideal of community building. But the ideal should not be entirely lost. The project has reached the point it is at through the cooperation of many people (and in spite of hostility from others). We hope that by offering some additional services and support to contributors we will build at least some sense of community. Note that "contributions" is not always synonymous with money, although that is the most convenient contribution to make for many people and is greatly needed. Others have contributed time and effort, content, or other things.
First of all, it goes to the CSAC and not to your local government-run avalanche center. The CSAC is the organization running the mailing list system and trying to recover the costs of doing that. If you wish to contribute to the US Forest Service for the services of your local avalanche center you need to do that separately.
Our fixed expenses are about $700-800 per month (office rent, server expense, phone lines, etc). This is over $8400 (in USD) per year. We also need to replace or acquire computer equipment periodically. (Check out our page with financial background info for more details.)
The CSAC had no paid employees prior to the 1999-2000 season. Starting in the fall of 1999 the organization has hired very part-time hourly office help through a local employee leasing service. There are still no full-time employees and the director (webmaster, list manager, content person, general administrator, janitor and everything else rolled into one job) position pays for 10 hours per month at minimum wage.
The CSAC is a tax-deductible charitable organization (501c3) organization in the US and once had charity status with Revenue Canada. (We abandoned the status in Canada since there was no benefit to it and little financial support from there any more.) As a charitable organization our financial records with the IRS and the Oregon Dept. of Justice are available to the public on request. Many of our official papers on online for perusal in the Organizational section.
Shouldn't avalanche bulletins be distributed freely?
We do not believe the public should have to pay to obtain avalanche bulletins. We maintain postings of or links to most of the worlds avalanche bulletins on our website and these will always be free. Many bulletins are available by phone at no cost as well. These methods of distribution are not cost-free, but a web page can serve more people with less overhead expense (in time, primarily) than a mailing list. Telephone access is usually underwritten by some group or government agency. This is an option for our mailing lists as well. However, there has not been any interest so far in underwriting any of them. Nor in helping to seek underwriting.
Mailing lists differ from web and telephone distribution in that people do not just acquire a bulletin. They ask that it be delivered directly to them. This puts a certain burden on the user of the service to keep their delivery information current. Each and every time it expires or changes for one list subscriber some intervention is required by those providing the service. When a contribution is required the service subscribers tend to be better about keeping their delivery information current.
Can I still subscribe and unsubscribe myself, and in that way change my address as well?
Yes. List management will still function in the same way, and our web interface will still work. You can add or remove your address(es) from any list(s) you would like to at any time and there will be no verification of your contributor status at the time of the change(s). A script will be run once in a while which will remove any non-contributor addresses from our lists. The procedure we follow in maintaining the lists is described here.
Members can access a special web-based form which allows them to subscribe/unsubscribe from as many of the lists as they want to, all at one time and with no confirmation email required.
We are keeping track of newly subscribed addresses and for the first running of the script after their subscription they will not be removed but will receive a notice. After our script is run this list of addresses is emptied. So new subscribers will have a time period during which they can try out the service and make a contribution. The procedure we follow in maintaining the lists is described here.
I contributed but I am still getting unsubscribed, what is wrong?
For some reason the e-mail address in our contributor records differs from that which is subscribed to our list(s). It may have been omitted from a snail-mail contribution, the address given with the contribution may be a different one from what has been used on the list, or there may have been a change of address involved of which we were not informed. When this happens we can usually correct it quickly, so be sure to let us know immediately. Our turn-around time on fixing such problems is rarely more than 24 hours.
What other benefits do I get for contributing?
This will be changing over time, so check out http://www.avalanche-center.org/Organization/contribute/benefits.php
Being part of a community and supporting a grass-roots effort should be considered a main benefit. But for those who are not in this frame of mind there are also a few tangible benefits to contributing. Suggestions for more are always welcome as well.
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